Feb 21, 2012 Grandfathers Ruger Red Label 20 gauge- Do I use it or not? Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by sjd181. All the Ruger collectors already got a low number one way back then. It's a shooter. Rc rcmodel, Jan 27. Ruger discontinued the Red label; it has no collector value. Unsurprisingly, most of the “U” marked guns were sold to Ruger employees. This is an about good-near very good Red Label that needs a bit of work, but also has a rare and desirable factory marking. Nov 30, 2013 ruger red label serial numbers, ruger red label shotgun history serial number, where is the serial number on a ruger red label shotgun? Click on a term to search for related topics. Thread Tools: Show Printable Version. Email this Page. Display Modes: Linear Mode.
- Ruger Red Label 20 Gauge
- Ruger Red Label For Sale
- Ruger Red Label Serial Number 401
- Ruger Serial Number Chart
This is a discussion on Red Labels - Anybody Know The Real Differences? within the Ruger Shotguns forums, part of the Rifle & Shotgun Forum category; Upfront, I'm very happy to see the Red Label return. Just want to be clear on that. I'm still a big fan of the RL. ..
Ruger Pistols | Ruger Double Action Revolvers | Ruger Single Action Revolvers | Ruger Rimfires | Ruger Shotguns |
|
Ruger 10/22 Rimfire | Ruger Charger Rimfire | Ruger Semi Auto Rifles | Ruger Single Shot Rifles | Ruger Lever Action Rifles | Ruger Bolt Action Rifles |
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
November 17th, 2013, 03:32 AM | #1 |
Moderator Location: Arizona | Red Labels - Anybody Know The Real Differences? Upfront, I'm very happy to see the Red Label return. Just want to be clear on that. I'm still a big fan of the RL. I know it's early yet but has anyone uncovered any real differences between the old Red Label and the new version? It's going to be hard to distinguish the two in discussion since Ruger decided to call it the same thing as before and not something like 'New Model Red Label'. I'm going to use the serial number prefix - the new version has a prefix of 412 and the older guns had a prefix of 411 (12 gauge). The Ruger marketing department would have us believe the 412 guns are better, stronger, more balanced, never miss a bird, etc. (ok, I added the last one but you get the idea.) 'Back and better than ever, the NEW Ruger® Red Label over-and-under shotgun represents American gunmaking at its finest. .. Newly redesigned, the shotgun now features refined inner workings, a new center of gravity and reduced recoil, making it lively in the hand and even more pleasurable to shoot. These improvements make the new Red Label shotgun the perfect choice for hunting upland game, waterfowling, sporting clays, skeet or even just informal clay target shooting with family.' The implication here is that the 412 model is better than the 411 model. Is this true? I saw a new 412 for sale at a gun shop for $935 yesterday. If the 412 is better than the 411 what does that make a used 411 now worth? At the end of production of the 411 guns the MSRP was pushing $2K. Now they're making the 'new and improved' 412 for an MSRP of $1399 with street prices below $1K. Does the price of the new 412 gun drive down the value of the old 411 model? Am I the only one that finds it surprising that Ruger can reintroduce a 'better' version of the same gun a few years later for roughly a 30% lower MSRP? When I worked in another industry the company I worked for was always looking for ways to reduce the cost of the product and increase market share. We used to joke 'New and improved! Cheaper is better!' I hope that's not the case with the Red Label. Which is why I'm asking - does anyone know a real nuts and bolts answer to the differences between the new 412 model and the old 411 guns? Does the new 412 gun effectively tank the resale value of the 411? |
November 17th, 2013, 12:04 PM | #2 |
Location: Central Valley of California | I was buying Red Labels when there was more blued furniture than latter models (especially in the forend portion). That and you selected the chokes of your gun. I could only get IM and Mod for chokes and never was able to find a skt and skt choked gun. I loved it for shooting NSSA registered skeet, but quite often I'd be the only Ruger owner at a very large meet. Other shooters just said that it was too darn heavy yet I've fielded a Browning Citori and found it to be just as heavy if not more so than the Red Label. I bought a couple of more stainless than before models and had Briley make me a set of 410 tubes for my 28 gauge so I could shoot the four gages of skeet all with Red Labels (boy I had a rumpload of money socked into that phase of my skeet game!). I soon realized I neither had the money nor the time to shoot all four gages and doubles so I kept my skeet game to just 12 gauge and doubles. I found the Red Label to be perfect for both of those games. I later got my dream gun in a ALL stainless Ruger All Weather Red Label which I had pigeon ported and that became my one and only skeet gun. What I see as the difference between before and after models of the Red Label is the first admitted change by Ruger is that the new guns had less metal in them. Smaller Receiver and smaller diameter barrels, but still with a slightly over bored internal diameter. They may even go so far as to swamp the barrels so that the thin barrel walls come out to a diameter that allows mating of their choke tubes with a thinner walled barrel. I see this as Old Vaquero vs. New Vaquero. I have always bought my Rugers since they were built like tanks so I'm still a fan of the old model Vaquero's and the Old model of Red Label. Smithy. |
November 17th, 2013, 01:21 PM | #3 |
Location: Michigan | New Red Label The older Red Labels I have seen have not gone down in price from what I see. Saw a couple in a gun shop the other day for $1,299 and $1,399 respectively. They had the new 412 in stock and it was priced at $1,019. Go figure. The new one did feel good in my hands. If I had a thousand and wanted and over and under, she would have followed me home. Just my thoughts. Grade6man |
November 17th, 2013, 03:36 PM | #4 |
Location: Atlanta, GA | I can't answer the question about the value of the 411 serial #. From what I have seen online is the price of the older Red Label have not dropped. The new Red Label is sweet, I picked one up at a good price and so far it has worked well. Shoots well, misses have been with shooter not the weapon. So far both Skeet and Sporting Clays have proven to be the right choice. If you have the $1K look closely at the Red Label. |
November 17th, 2013, 04:03 PM | #5 |
Location: wayne nj | They look and feel good but I am not much of a shotgunner. |
November 17th, 2013, 04:20 PM | #6 | |
Moderator Location: Arizona |
I'm skeptical by nature I guess. I suppose one explanation is that Ruger was just making a huge profit on every old 411 Red Label they made and now they are content with a much more modest profit, hence the big price drop. But I doubt it... |
![Ruger Red Label Serial Numbers Ruger Red Label Serial Numbers](/uploads/1/2/6/1/126139148/950797509.jpg)
November 17th, 2013, 04:33 PM | #7 | |
Moderator Location: Arizona |
I have an old 411 gun from back in the day too - fixed chokes (imp and mod). Nice, hard-working field gun. |
November 26th, 2013, 05:13 PM | #8 |
Location: Central Texas | I found one of the new ones that happened to have a fairly low serial number and bought it - but haven't shot it yet. That said, the fit and finish don't seem nearly as good. Can see a lot of grinding and polishing marks on the receiver. It weight 5 ounces less that my old 12 gauge with the same barrel length and balances better. Maybe the fit/finish are a result of being out of practice on making shotguns or it may be part of how they cut the cost. |
November 27th, 2013, 06:27 AM | #9 | |
Moderator Location: Arizona |
|
November 30th, 2013, 08:09 AM | #10 |
Location: Vermont | My understanding is the big difference is manufacturing. The old RL was a nightmare to make. The receiver casting took a lot of work to mill. The new RL receiver was designed to be made easier and more of a stream lined approach to make. |
|
None |
«New Piece | Old Style Roll Marks on New Red Label»
Search tags for this page |
1993 ruger red label 12 gauge weight,differance in ruger red label and gold label 20 gauge,new production red label anyone,ruger red label 12 gauge serial numbers,ruger red label 20 gauge shotgun manufacture date,ruger red label models,ruger red label serial number,ruger red label serial number 411, ,ruger red label shotgun history serial number,serial number location on ruger red label,where is the serial number on a ruger red label shotgun? |
Similar Ruger Forum Discussions | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Are the Red Labels Gone? | weblance | Ruger Shotguns | 46 | February 17th, 2013 07:12 AM |
My Red Labels | tonyex | Gun Gallery | 2 | August 28th, 2008 06:23 AM |
Ruger Red Label 20 Gauge
The Death of the Ruger Red Label II
Ruger Red Label For Sale
What happened? In short, Ruger simply miscalculated the cost of production. They no doubt are and were well-aware that they need to be under the mid-range market leaders (Beretta and Browning) in price point, as well as actually make money, in order for the new Red Label II to be sustainable. It did not work out that way. Further, the strength of the dollar vs. the Euro and the Japanese yen makes this goal much more difficult than it was just a year or two ago.
In 2013, Ruger manufactured and sold 2,294 shotguns, according to the ATF, and the new Red Label was released late that year. It was not a cobbled-together redesign. Dwight Potter was hired away from Browning in part, I suspect, for the Red Label II project. A lot of effort went into the re-release.
I would expect at least some initial issues with a new line and new tooling. I do not know the actual numbers, but let's speculate 1% of the first 5000 new RRLs had problems. Still, that is 50 shotguns and everyone who has a problem will post about it somewhere, or grumble to their acquaintances, at least 50 times. Then, the 'I hear' syndrome starts. It means little in the long run, if there is indeed a long run. Initially there sure was, for the original Red Label was in production for over thirty years and developed a strong following.
If you are losing money on a product, you are not going to make it up in quantity. Ruger takes care of problems, they always have, but there should be no mistake: repair and replacement costs a lot of money. No one expects Ruger employees to work for free.
The first sign (at least to me) that things were going tragically wrong was the radical jump in MSRP on the Ruger website. It was $1399 MSRP when I tested mine, right at $1000 street price. Then, seemingly overnight, up it went to $1795 MSRP. It was as if Ruger was trying to discourage new orders for the Red Label, which they actually were.
Feb 13, 2016 Re: Kalamazoo serial numbers I am bumping this thread as, for some reason, I took a notion to peer into my Kalamazoo with a flashlight, and found '793011' stamped inside. This was sold to me as a 1942 KM-12. Kalamazoo guitar serial numbers. Kalamazoos have a stamped serial number on the back of the headstock that generally follows regular Gibson date ranges, though apparently there are plenty of exceptions. This example is stamped 529967 which, according to Gruhn’s Guide to Vintage Guitars, put this toward the end of 1968.
If the numbers do not work, you have to pull the plug and cut your losses. That is what any wise businessman would have to do. There is a good reason pre-production cost figures are called estimates and projections.
In January 2015, a Ruger representative said:
'The (new) Red Label has been removed from the web site and will not be present in the 2015 catalog. Our plan is to ramp down the production of the O/U in the first third of the year. Our current backlog is larger than our capacity, so we removed it from the marketing material. We are releasing about 250 20 gauge models this week, but have no plans to make more. While we are all pretty upset having to cease production (again), the numbers don't lie. The current design is just not able to be manufactured for the retail price we need to hit.'
![Ruger Red Label Serial Numbers Ruger Red Label Serial Numbers](/uploads/1/2/6/1/126139148/170649072.jpg)
There is no other explanation than the obvious: Ruger stuffed it up, embarrassingly so. To actually release 250 shotguns in 20 gauge and abruptly throw your hands up in the air is tantamount to admitting a stinging defeat. I predicted the new Red Label II would be a hit in my article The Ruger Red Label II O/U Shotgun is a Sure-Fire Hit:
Ruger Red Label Serial Number 401
'For the money, $1000 or so at discount retail, the new Red Label is quite an accomplishment. No other name-brand manufacturer has a competitive product, not even close. The $1000 O/U is largely the import market creature of cheesy chemical fake case-coloring or belt-buckle adorned receivers, spotty black chrome finishes instead of bluing, choke tubes that look like they were made with a rat-tail file and vinyl-crucifix recoil pads. The Red Label is a huge jump over that clumsy class of low-grade double. The Red Label II is not beyond improvement: the automatic reset safety is annoying, and the triggers could be lighter and crisper. However, the Red Label II's barrels are lighter, it is better handling and it is softer-shooting, with a generous, well-fitted recoil pad. The Red Label began its journey as a 20 gauge, and that's the gun to which I am really looking forward.'
Spongebob squarepants employee of the month game free download. The only bummer about SpongeBob SquarePants: Employee of the Month is that the game is totally short - you'll be able to finish it in a day or two, tops. You can chat with the peeps from the SpongeBob TV show, visit SpongeBob's hangouts, and more!
Well, woulda-coulda-shoulda and I could not have been more wrong. Ruger is a clever, extremely well-managed company, lauded by Forbes as #9 on their list of America's Best Small Companies. It goes to show, at present, a popular priced, American made, O/U shotgun is not viable in the marketplace. No one has tried at any significant level and been successful, except for Ruger with the original Red Label.
Ruger Serial Number Chart
Whether you are making donuts, refrigerators, or widgets, if you project that a given amount of machine time nets you 100 pieces of finished product, but the reality is half of that, it won't last for long. The Red Label II was a brief, laudable attempt, but the record shows production costs were too far off the mark.